You are not able to continue the discussion because you have no idea what you are talking about.
Fuck you for wasting my time
Corporations will try ofcourse that’s what they do, but denying meta federation from the getgo goes against the philosophy of federation. The points you’re making NEED to be made, we NEED to observe how meta handles it and how all services are affected. We can decide from there whether your doom scenario holds any merrit whatsoever.
I feel like we’re having an actual discussion now. However, you go on about proving everything, while making unsupported claims yourself, don’t you think that’s a bit hypocritical? Ah wait, I’ll give you some examples.
Federating with a 10x larger entity that has a ton of very well known names on their list is going to dwarf anything that the fediverse so far has to offer. I‘m not saying in quality but definitely in quantity.
Claim 1: no proof this will happen, each instance can decide the degree of federation, no amount of users can dwarf an instance they cannot federate with. Blocking the instance yourself will exclude yourself from any of Meta’s shenanigans immediately.
If meta ever defederates or limits the capabilities of fediverse instance
Claim 2: meta cannot limit the capabilities of the fediverse, if they change what ActivityPub stands for, we will fork ActivityPub into what it’s supposed to be, having our federation sans meta like we have now.
thousands of (again) hooked addicts will flock back to them. It’s literally obvious if you have any experience with addiction.
Claim 3: Obsolete platforms have no way of defeating obsolescence, here’s a paper on why dead internet platforms cannot be revived. There will ALWAYS be algorithmic, profit driven, centralised platforms, why would meta choosing to defederate lead to a mass exodus of lemmy when people who want that are already getting their fix? If anything, it could lead to more people joining lemmy instead. The point is we don’t know. Also, making a statement like this is textbook fearmongering, which leads me to my next point.
Fearmongering is if the media or the government does it, not people who are actually there using the stuff and suffering under things. That is called asking others for help/to understand.
Claim 4: Fearmongering - the action of intentionally trying to make people afraid of something when this is not necessary or reasonable. source
It is not reasonable to deny everyone the federation of meta because you fear a mass exodus back to facebook, according to my previous source people will find their algorithmic fix elsewhere, but rarely the same platform.
Because it is the right thing to do.
Claim 5: “the right thing to do” still does not mean anything: for ukraine the right thing to do is for russia to give back their land. If you’re russia the right thing to do is for ukraine to give back their land. You see how this statement holds no value at all?
“social media is a drug”
Claim 6: I agree with this one, so here are your sources why decriminalisation, ie not punishing users of them, but providing them the resources and tools to help them, is the way to go. Not one, but two sources backing that up.
Denying people the option of a federated meta instance will cause less people to switch over, period. Having a place where people can still access the other platform, without actually being on said platform will drastically increase the userbase.
Don’t take my word for it, just listen to the lemmy devs:
In practical terms: Imagine if you could follow a Facebook group from your Reddit account and comment on its posts without leaving your account. If Facebook and Reddit were federated services that used the same protocol, that would be possible. With a Lemmy account, you can communicate with any other compatible instance, even if it is not running on Lemmy. All that is necessary is that the software support the same subset of the ActivityPub protocol.
Unlike proprietary services, anyone has the complete freedom to run, examine, inspect, copy, modify, distribute, and reuse the Lemmy source code. Just like how users of Lemmy can choose their service provider, you as an individual are free to contribute features to Lemmy or publish a modified version of Lemmy that includes different features. These modified versions, also known as software forks, are required to also uphold the same freedoms as the original Lemmy project. Because Lemmy is libre software that respects your freedom, personalizations are not only allowed but encouraged.
So, from the 6 claims I listed, only one can be sourced.
Do you know how federation works? Because if you did you’d know that ‘corportions get their hooks into the fediverse’ does not mean anything. Defederation and forking of the source code is a click away, the reason lemmy exists is to move away from corporations. Contradicting that would just spawn a new lemmy federation.
So I tell you to block the instance, or join an instance that has defederated with meta, and you would have literally zero impact of any of what you said, did you reply to that? No.
So I follow your addiction rethoric and give you a real life example which contradicts that exact rethoric, did you reply to that? No.
I have the same concerns as you, express them but have a different approach, did you reply to that? No.
So now I’ll tell you this, instead of projecting, pulling up a strawman and overall passive aggressiveness, do realise we’re on the same team, we all want what is best for the federation. But the great thing about the federation is anyone can choose what they see, literally. For all I know federation with meta turns out to be a giant shit show, for all you know it turns into what could be the best thing for ActivityPub, more users, more publicity, more platforms joining in. I am open to being wrong, but are you?
Edit: Why not wait and see.
Embrace, Extend, Extinguish, is a strategy tech companies (and a lot more outside of tech as well) have used to use existing open standard and over time slowly add, adapt and finally take over those standards.
It’s a genuine concern this might happen to ActivityPub and Lemmy by extension by Meta, who is integrating ActivityPub as we speak.
I ignore dumbasses like you and carry on with my life
Clearly you are not, also having a civil discussion with people who don’t share your point of view is an important life skill, try it out sometime.
So what exactly do you do for this platform except from spreading hate and intolerance?
Lmao, I addressed everything you said, have not dismissed anything and countered every single one of your arguments and when you can’t respond anymore you start with namecalling. Maybe don’t pick fights you’re not prepared for.
So then explain to me, how exactly does this impact you? What about you block the meta instance yourself? You will not see any threads content and will continue to use lemmy/ActivityPub in literally the exact same way.
I agree with the premise that Meta is a horrible company and we pay close attention on how its federation progresses. I still have not seen a single argument that holds any weight, from you as well, against the wait and see approach.
“Because it’s the right thing to do” is not an argument, it’s a statement without anything to back you up. What is right is subjective to everyone.
Also, I have not changed gears, and still firmly believe there’s a lot to be gained. Any concerns you have, I already answered. Anyone has a place in the fediverse, because its core principle is exactly that. Don’t agree? Then block the fucking instance.
Then go ahead, argue, I’m trying to have a civil conversation.
I host my own server to get away from monopolies, I actively support the development of lemmy and ActivityPub, what do you do exactly but detract credibility from your peers do have genuine concerns.
If you really want to compare social media to drug use, how does the need for decriminalisation fit into this? Don’t limit what people can or can’t do because you fear the outcome. Let everyone (ie users and admins) decide for themselves which platforms they want to see, and give them the tools to do so.
dwarf anything that the fediverse so far has to offer
You curate your own feed, if you don’t like seeing posts from that instance, then block it yourself. Like with NSFW instances, I don’t see any in my feed, don’t like them? Block them. For new users there will be instances who have defederated and those who have not. Why should your dopamine addiction be my problem? Advocating for every instance to defederate preemptively is more than counter productive, it’s the very definition of fear mongering.
So no, your argument does not hold up.
If meta ever defederates or limits the capabilities of fediverse instances, thousands of (again) hooked addicts will flock back to them. It’s literally obvious if you have any experience with addiction.
Then we will defederate, people wanting that algorithmic dopamine hit are already getting it, and people in virtual rehab will know to block anything they want.
There is still no argument against the wait and see approach.
Wait and see is not ignoring anything though, and have not read a single argument against it. Defederation can happen at any time for any reason in the future, why would you preemptively exclude a potential for ActivityPub to get major recognition?
I’m not excluding the possibility an EEE attempt, and meta’s track record definitely shows they will try. But people using ActivityPub right now won’t stop because a company forked it into their own standard, we are here specifically for the exact opposite. Meta literally has zero influence on any of us, if anything it’s the exact opposite.
Also “learning from history” is a weak argument, every server admin as the possibility to defederate at any moment. When even the slightest misstep is placed, everyone defederates and Meta will live in their own little federated world, boo fucking hoo.
What’s wrong with you? Ignoring everything I say, getting yourself in a discussion you clearly know very little about, just regurgitating no original thoughts whatsoever. Garden variety psychologist, go back to reddit.