mozz

1. Stop calling it “the fediverse”

Dude this is genius

I am interested to see how it plays out but the idea of the instance admin being able to pierce the veil and investigate things that seem suspect (and being responsible for their instance not housing a ton of spam accounts just as now) seems like a perfect balance at first reading

Edit: Hahaha now I know Rimu’s alter ego because he upvoted me. Gotcha!

With the current way that ActivityPub works, this isn’t really possible. Every vote needs to be signed by some real user; if that changed such that anonymous votes were accepted then there’s nothing to stop any random person from adding 5 or 5,000 anonymous votes.

Oh, yeah, at that point it’ll be a scalability clusterfuck. No idea what the solution is. Maybe something with persistent caches run by third parties or something? That actually would be fine, since all the actions are signed with the private key of the actor, I think.

ActivityPub is not to me a real great designed protocol but it’s whatever. Usually the key part for social networks is the “social” part of it; the protocol or the web site can be pure shite and if people like interacting with the other people there then it’s fine. But yes, you are correct that beyond a certain point of scalability there are some dragons lurking that don’t have obvious weak spots.

Apparently mbin does not put Like/Dislike activities in there

Yes. That’s what I said. I’m actually not 100% sure about it; for all I know there’s some way to get it, but AFAIK all the existing softwares don’t publish votes “after the fact”, only at the time to current subscribers. But then, of course, it’s kind of a moot point because you can just grab it from any mbin instance’s DB through the UI without needing to do anything special or any particular knowledge.

In a world where ActivityPub is only used in server-to-server, this would be fine. If we ever get to a (IMNSHO, better) scenario where we have more clients talking AP directly, then this will not work, and mbin will have to add those as well.

Not really. You can have your client talking to all the servers and grabbing votes for whatever you’re subscribed to, and losing votes for anything you’re not subscribed to. It works basically exactly that way for one-user instances already.

There is no sane way to square this peg into a round hole. Privacy and “Social Media” are inherently incompatible. The advice about not putting anything online that you are not willing to ever be made public is evergreen, and anyone that does not follow it will eventually have to learn it the hard way.

Tru dat. 100% agreed. It seems like there are all these people in this thread arguing that their votes need to be private. Their votes are not private, and will never be private, for as long as ActivityPub is what they’re using. I can see some value, maybe, to making it slightly difficult to extract the information instead of just giving it for free to everyone, but holding onto the idea of your votes being private is a gateway to unhappiness and only unhappiness.

It’s not quite that simple. As far as I’m aware, it’s difficult to fetch from another instance “after the fact” what all the votes are for a particular user or comment; you have to be signed up to receive updates on it, and then after the fact you can go hunting around in your own instance’s DB and see what all the votes were (or your UI can do it, if it’s supported).

But, yes, there are instance softwares that will do it, and no one’s defederating from every one of those instances (nor I think should they). Someone posted a link to an mbin instance breaking down the votes for this post. Votes are not private.

You’re proposing removing the bar entirely because it is not high enough.

Incorrect. I said that I see no obvious answer as to whether to remove the bar – that’s the (a) part. What I’m proposing to do is definitely to educate people about the existence of the bar and the fact that they shouldn’t be voting on porn, or contentious political topics from an account with their real name, or etc etc like that.

More than 1% of the currently active Lemmy users are actively running a server (it’s 1.4%, 649 active instances out of 45k MAU), so I think the number is definitely less than 99% of people who wouldn’t know how to do it in the first place (or find an mbin or Friendica server or etc).

The broader point about it being fairly difficult / fairly rare to have the knowledge, I can agree with, but I wasn’t saying necessarily that we should make it easier for the 98.6% of people to do; just that everyone should be aware that it’s possible so they can make their voting decisions with that knowledge in mind.

Your votes are already public. It’s a matter of (a) do we want to make it slightly easier for the people who aren’t technically inclined to see them too (b) do we want people acting with the awareness that they’re public.

(a) doesn’t have a clear answer to me. The answer to (b), though, is clearly yes.

political extremists, tech nerds, privacy enthusiasts, and shitposters

Dude thank god

I miss my old nerd internet. I won’t say you’re wrong for wanting something that isn’t that, but I personally wish it was more that way than it currently is. SDF or mander is honestly a lot closer to how I like the culture and interactions to be, than Lemmy.world. I was super psyched when I came on and there were all these communists and science weirdos.

for the general masses? Lemmy is just not good.

For example, a NBA post on the NBA subreddit can get you thousands of interactions in a couple of hours. An NBA post on here will maybe get you a dozen over the course of a couple of days.

Honestly, when sports started showing up on the main page of Reddit it was confusing and alarming to me. I recognize that I am the weird one here (from the POV of the ordinary person society), but I much prefer just having my nerd stuff and having it be unencumbered by any normal person stuff

I think we actually have exactly the same view of Lemmy and its accurate position in relation to most normal people, just disagreeing over whether that is or isn’t a good thing

I used to do a pretty frequent task to find any image in my media directory, which has atime longer ago than a week ago, which hasn’t already been crunched in some previous round, and crunch the hell out of it with either mogrify -quality or pngquant. All of these softwares like to keep full-quality copies of a basically infinite number of images which there’s about a 99.9% chance will never be needed again, and you can crunch them down to a tiny fraction of their original size, and they still honestly look more or less fine.

Hm. So I understand the different comment IDs on different servers – the point is that searching for https://discuss.online/comment/9004867 on lemmy.world should then return a link to that same comment, with the right ID number for lemmy.world, on lemmy.world. Because through its federation backend it’s able to fetch the comment in question from discuss.online and then determine what is the local ID number on lemmy.world. Exactly the same as how it works for posts.

I just mucked around with it, and it works sometimes but not other times. I suspect that it’s because of backed up federation queues or too-short timeouts or something, but it definitely works some of the time. If it’s unreliable it may not be that good an idea to put into practice, though, of course.

Hey so check out what I just learned:

To post a link to a post, just search for the URL of the fediverse-icon version of it on your instance, then link directly to that search, chopping off the https://{your instance} from the front

And likewise for links to comments

You’re still making the user do 2 clicks instead of 1, but it’s still quite a lot more convenient than the other thing. It could be made even nicer (arguably “good enough”) if the backend could transparently redirect to the first search result along the lines of “I’m feeling lucky,” but it doesn’t look like right now it can do that.

Yeah, creating a thread for it sounds good. I’m looking at it now 👍🏻. I have matrix but pretty rarely use it

Oh no have I gotten myself involved into a community drama

My plan was the lemmy.world community but I have no real objection to doing it for both, and then it’ll get detected as a cross post, and displayed once to people who are seeing either or both communities. (This operating on the assumption that it’s wanted on the lemm.ee community also.) How’s that sound? I just don’t want anyone to yell at me

I was gonna spend time today on the movies bot, I can do a footie bot at the same time if you like?

Watch this!

I think Jewish people are great.

The janky network penetrates the enshittification

Yeah agreed. In particular I really like that feditest exists even if I haven’t done anything to check it out / learn about it for myself yet.

Akkoma and Pleroma are two popular “Mastodon style” Fediverse apps, I think born out of exactly this type of complaint about Mastodon, which you could get involved with if you wanted to be involved with better software without it being a one-man show.

I think it’s made needlessly difficult by how sloppy a protocol ActivityPub is, such that different Fediverse apps can’t really interoperate with each other except at a pretty rudimentary level, so you kind of have to pick one of the leading ones and imitate it, in order to be a citizen in its community and not have to build your own little community from scratch. But that’s a problem without a real easy solution, I think.

You can make a protocol that allows for not-yet-defined behavior, or has parts that are prescribed to work in a certain way if you’re choosing to implement some certain behavior although you’re not required to. The 7-layer OSI model and SMTP-email headers are two good examples. Even grafting encrypted or multimedia email on top worked, more or less, reasonably well and was still interoperable for the most part. They could have used that type of thing as a starting point, instead of doing the equivalent of “well we don’t want to constrain what types of networking applications you might want to implement, so we’re just gonna specify the from and to addresses. You do your checksumming and MTU management the way YOUR application wants to do it.”

I mean I’m not gonna sit too much in judgement of someone who created something which is working and producing good things but it’s hard not to be wistful about how much better it could be if the spec was specific enough that the different apps could substantively talk to one another.