I think it’s good to have regular outreach. I just subscribed to the linux community from this one.

The other post also has me considering moving my account to a different instance. There were some compelling arguments against centralizing on lemmy.world. (I don’t strongly disagree with the moderation here but I do somewhat disagree with centralizing admin power like on reddit.)

I wouldn’t mind seeing these regularly. But maybe it would be nice to have someone make specific accounts for that purpose so you can easily block them out of your feed.

I guess this more a top 10 list than our extensive thread

Yeah this is post 65534 on how lemmy.ml is bad, centralizing on lemmy.world is best. Two more and we’ll get a nice round number!

Sounds like programming.dev might be a good fit, or perhaps dbzer0?

More like CCP and propaganda enthusiasts

.world liberals are on a propaganda crusade to close off their Zionist echo chambers.

IMO organizations should self-host their official communities. If you’re going to move, it ought to be to something like [email protected].

In addition to the obvious benefits of having admin control/being able to avoid moderation drama imposed by others, it also means you could have more than one community: maybe !openmw for general discussion, plus !modding, !development, etc.

I had a look at your community, do you want to save post and comments?

If not, the easiest way is to announce on the current community where you are going to move, then lock it, so that people indeed move to the new one.

I did it from [email protected] to [email protected], it worked quite well.

but we’d be much happier if we could migrate the existing community rather than start from scratch with a new one. Is there any way to do that yet?

Migrating content over should be doable by a sufficiently tech-savvy admin, subscribers, I don’t think so.

We love to be the home of smaller communities, but for sure, any larger ones should look into running on their own setup. If you need help, drop us a line!

I mean it’s obviously run by Russia so anything that makes people realise you can’t trust anything that comes out of it is good.

I’d like not too see lemmy.ml people denying tianmen square or russian war crimes

Lemm.ee will not defederate over tankie mods, there’s a specific policy. As to the change I want to see: Guess what I did just before I posted the list, go through all my subscription and clean it of lemmy.ml.

I very much doubt there’s going to be one a day, these kinds of things tend to ebb and flow. Also it would’ve been much faster to ignore this thread than to reply.

I just don’t see the point of these posts when most Lemmy users have been around for a while and know what lemmy.ml is like by now.

I got here about a month ago. I only found out what lemmy.ml was like BECAUSE of these kinds of posts.

these daily announcements threads on an instance that’s already defederating apparently

Where has LW announced that they would be defederating?

If you want to build up alternatives, post and comment so they’re more active.

Which is what they are trying to achieve by promoting those communities in this post?

Feel free to be the change you want to see. You are telling OP to stfu about their issues and simply move on rather than complain, yet you seem to be doing the opposite of that yourself, hrm…

If you meant something otherwise, it was not explained well imho.

I see the same article posted about 15 times for three days, maybe that’s the same thing going on here.

And .world is liberal amerikkkan bs then?

(not saying that either one is right btw)

Are you on [email protected]? That’s a topic we discuss quite often there

I don’t care how big .world gets because it’s the same thing with mastodon.social or pixelfed.social. Coming from primarily centralized services, people will always be looking for a “main” instance because that’s what their brains are used to and that’s what will help adoption. The ones who care will use another instance. As long as fedi has the users and not the proprietary alternatives, it’s fine. We can manage.

I like to think that a lot of the more “Reddity” Reddit refugees from .world, those who tend toward pearl clutching theatrics like these posts, will eventually head back to Reddit. Maybe they’ll find their perfect alternative, where there are no dev or admin issues and everyone has a comforting (for them) center-left to center-right, Western ideology driven political stance that never challenges their preconceptions.

Feel free to create an elaborate post on [email protected] or [email protected]

I’m sure people would read it with great attention

Elaborate?

With that out of the way, most of your suggestions boil down to “use lemmy.world instead”.

It’s where big replacement communities happen to be, that’s all there is to it. Avoiding centralisation is a good thing in general but “tired of .ml mods? Here’s alternatives” isn’t the right time to go for it I think. Maybe the admins can come up with a scheme to round-robin disable community creation or something, to spread things out. Also, community migration is in the pipeline software-wise that would help a lot.

The way that I see it, the issue with lemmy ml’s administration and moderation is not quite political in origin. It’s about transparency

Well it’s really both. The issue is the combination of a number of factors which on their own would be fairly easy to deal with, but put together they are very problematic:

1. The admins are political extremists
2. lemmy.ml has a very prominent position in the lemmyverse, because they were first and got a headstart
3. The admins are actively using their position to heavily police discussion according to their extremist political views. The fact that they’re not being transparent about it is aggravating, but not the root problem.

This prominent position of lemmy.ml is the fundamental difference with the hexbear or lemmygrad situation. Those instances can easily be contained at the user level: most people can just block and ignore them entirely because nothing interesting happens on those instances for non-extremists. Not so with lemmy.ml, which hosts a number of large bona-fide communities.

So I think it’s necessary to make a concerted effort to reduce lemmy.ml’s prominence in the fediverse, so that political extremists can’t put their thumb on the scale to nudge discussion in a certain direction. Part of that effort is raising awareness about lemmy.ml’s nature, which is what this PSA does, but that likely won’t be enough due to network effect. It will take more to get people to move their communities to other instances. If other large instances, like lemmy.world, would block lemmy.ml that would provide a real stimulus for a large amount of people to move away from lemmy.ml.

With that out of the way, most of your suggestions boil down to “use lemmy.world instead”. I don’t have anything against LW’s administration, but I think that it’s foolish to concentrate people and activity there even further

I agree that spreading out more would be desirable, but on the other hand “just use lemmy.world instead of lemmy.ml” is a very simple and practical suggestion to move away from ml.

I think that it’s foolish to concentrate people and activity there even further, it defeats the point of a federation.

It defeats some of the points of federation, but there are still a lot of reasons why federation is still worth doing even if there’s essentially one dominant provider. Not least of which is that sometimes the dominant provider does get displaced over time. We’ve seen it happen with email a few times, where the dominant provider loses market share to upstarts, one of whom becomes the new dominant provider in some specific use case (enterprise vs consumer, mobile vs desktop vs automation/scripting, differences by nation or language), and where the federation between those still allows the systems to communicate with each other.

Applied to Lemmy/kbin/mbin and other forum-like social link aggregators, I could see LW being dominant in the English-speaking, American side of things, but with robust options outside of English language or communities physically located outside of North America. And we’ll all still be able to interact.

It affects people who think that Lemmy.ml is the default instance, as it says itself and people say that any instance is fine to join.

It also affects people in the batshit insane comments that come from people on that instance, like lemmygrad.ml and hexbear.net, that occur with noticeably higher frequency than from other places.

It also affects people on that instance who talk as if into a void with many people blocking their instance but they don’t even know that. And that effect will increase over time.

It lowers traffic on the Fediverse, decreasing overall engagement, and drives people away from it altogether. It also lowers the likelihood that you can recommend to people irl to check out the Fediverse - when THAT stuff (e.g. defense of genocide) is seen it tends to turn people off who aren’t used to it or who are tech or culture savvy enough to know how to handle it.

So it does affect you, I promise, even if not directly, and over the next few months will do so increasingly as your instance turns into more of an echo chamber than it has been in the past, as more people block it either individually or at an instance level.

Agreed that many of the users are regular people who are just innocently getting swept up in all of this due to the actions of the admins. Just like users of Reddit were when spez did his power flex moves.

You might want to at least make an alt somewhere else so that you get some experiences that your .ml account increasingly will start to lack.

Isn’t the point of lem.ee that you get as wide an access to the fediverse as possible? I agree that lemmy.ml is run by terrible people, btw, I’m just wondering why you chose your instance.